How To Fix A Relationship That Isn’t Working

Kevin Anthony 0:11
Welcome to the love lab podcast a safe place to get real about sex. Whether you’re a man or woman, single or couple, this is the show for you.

Céline Remy 0:20
We are your hosts, Kevin Anthony and Celine Remy. And we are here to guide you to go from good to amazing in the bedroom and beyond.

Kevin Anthony 0:28
All right, welcome back to the love lab podcast. This is Episode 119. And it’s titled How to fix a relationship that isn’t working. Okay. So, you know, we do a lot of episodes that are like how to fix your relationship or something’s not working, and then what do you do about it, right.

Kevin Anthony 0:45
But one of the things that’s kind of funny about that, Now, granted, we have our own personal experience from relationships that didn’t work out. But in our actual relationship, everything’s worked really smoothly. So we don’t necessarily, we can’t say like, Oh, this is what Celine and I did, right. But we have special guests on the show today, who had kind of a rough start. And,

Kevin Anthony 1:08
and so what they’re going to do is they’re going to tell us basically about that rough start, the experience they had, and then what they did to fix it, right. So I think there’s gonna be a lot of value here for all those people that are in relationships that aren’t really going the way you want them to go. But you really, for whatever reason, you know, because you love each other, you got kids, whatever it is like you want to make it work. I think there’s gonna be some value here,

Céline Remy 1:33
I’m excited about it. Today, we’re going to dive into some of the things some of the stories when we were talking off cameras are hilarious, I’m really hoping they will bring those in. But before we introduce our guests, let’s give a big shout out to our sponsor’s power and mastery.

Céline Remy 1:47
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Céline Remy 2:07
Today, we have Gaby and Raj Sundra. They have taken their own messy marriage to magical woo from messy to magical, which allows their relationship guidance to be spot on because they’ve been through it. So Gabby has a master’s degree in education, counseling, and guidance and 25 years of coaching and teaching experience.

Céline Remy 2:30
Raj is a business consultant focusing on scaling and culture. And he is an avid student of what works, and a genius with gamification. Today, they have founded for better love, and their purpose is to use their lives and love to lift themselves and others up by bringing play to accountability. So welcome, Gabby and Raj.

Gaby Sundra 2:53
Thanks so much for having us.

Kevin Anthony 2:56
Yeah. So before we get started, I would like to say that Gavin Raj had us on their show like, three years ago, before we even were doing the love lab podcast, it was quite a long time ago. And so just want to say thanks for that. Because we were really early on and doing a lot of our sort of media stuff.

Kevin Anthony 3:15
And you guys had a sound, we had a lot of fun. So we’re excited to have you returned the favor. Have you on our show. So I just wanted to say that.

Gaby Sundra 3:23
Absolutely. That was so delightful and fun. And I can tell I remember your interview because my mouth feels similar that we were smiling and laughing and I just love that you bring a playful, delighted, positive, empowered feeling. There is you know, today we’re talking about fixing it, but it’s not all about fixing it. Right?

Gaby Sundra 3:42
It’s about as we say, bringing play to accountability, as you said in the intro. So thanks for being such a delight to have on our show and be on your show.

Céline Remy 3:50
So I want to dive right in because the stories are so fun. So first of all, we’re gonna go like, how did you know that your relationship wasn’t working? We remember something about friends and family at your wedding telling you at the wedding that you guys shouldn’t be married. But maybe that’s not the only story. So maybe

Kevin Anthony 4:09
before that. So like, obviously, there were some signs here. What were they?

Raj Sundra 4:16
Yeah, what were they? Well, the engagement

Gaby Sundra 4:20
before the wedding, there was an engagement party.

Raj Sundra 4:23
You know, as we have I we both had our own growth to do I remember after we broke up and tried to get back together, I reached out to different family members on Gaby’s side and you know just kind of cleaned up the breakup and said that we’re working on it again and did they want to talk about it.

Raj Sundra 4:43
and her aunt who does relationship work says you know, I think you got about four more years of growth to do before you’re ready to be with Gaby. More like eight there is actually more like eight.

Raj Sundra 4:59
you know, there’s that Definitely a dynamic of masculine feminine polarity going on where I haven’t quite stepped into my man yet. And Gaby was really holding on to her strong, powerful woman, both of us in unconscious ways, I think. And so there were just a lot of like, trip points that we kept getting hung up on that caused a lot of friction. Yeah,

Gaby Sundra 5:23
I needed to learn how to soften in many areas and be nurturing. Whereas when he had a challenging moment, my attitude was more like, get up, you ain’t hurt, you’re supposed to be the man, like I’m supposed to be able to fall apart in your arms, not you fall apart in my arms. And over time, I realized I wasn’t letting him be human. And eventually, I learned about your dad?.

Raj Sundra 5:43
Sure.

Gaby Sundra 5:44
Eventually, I learned that when he was 12, he lost his dad and nobody grieved, they just coped. And so I met him when he was almost 40. And he was still looking to grieve. He wanted to be comforted. Nobody had ever comforted him. And when I comforted him when he was having a challenge, overnight, those challenges stopped almost.

Gaby Sundra 6:07
And people started saying to me, Gaby, you’re so much softer, you’re so much softer. I didn’t realize what a harness I was. And I think we continue to be that medicine to embrace his softness and my strength, but also have him have deep, deeper access to his strength and may have a deeper access to my softens.

Kevin Anthony 6:25
That’s, that’s wonderful. So you, you really were diving in right there from the start into polarity stuff. So I would definitely love to ask another question or two about that. But I’m also curious, Raj, so you lost your dad when you were very young? I’m curious, did you have another male role model in your life? Because 12 is still pretty young. Like there’s still a lot of man teaching that needs to happen there.

Raj Sundra 6:49
Yeah, it is. Yeah, my, my, my dad’s actual lab partner at MIT, we were family friends with when you’re younger, found out, you know, that my dad had passed, and my mom and he started hanging out. And four years later they are they got married, and he’s still in my life, and back then running a company with him now, which is an interesting twist.

Raj Sundra 7:15
But, you know, I don’t actually he wasn’t like a super-strong male presence in my life. He more so when I grew older, he has been a serial entrepreneur and definitely been great there. So you know, I didn’t really have that strong male figure. And I think I was sort of stuck in many ways at age 12. emotionally.

Raj Sundra 7:38
So through a lot of the different transformational work that we’ve done, I became more and more aware of that and let you know, you get these friction points in with your partner, and you think it’s them.

Gaby Sundra 7:52
No one has to teach you that.

Kevin Anthony 7:56
That is so fascinating about this part of the discussion. And actually, this was not a direction that we’ve mapped out as far as where, you know, we were going to take this interview. But what I love about it is that so much of what you and I teach something is about this polarity piece, and how important that is to have a thriving, successful relationship.

Kevin Anthony 8:14
And so we’re going to cover a whole lot more later on as this interview goes about what steps you guys took. But just to make the point now, right from the beginning, that one of the big steps that you took was correcting that polarity, right? Where Gaby, you had to kind of set the kind of like, ease back into your feminine a little bit.

Kevin Anthony 8:32
And Raj, you had to kind of step up into your masculine a little bit. So that is a huge piece that just because it’s so important, we talk about it so much. I didn’t want us to just pass over that and be like, Oh, yeah, in one ear out the other. So

Gaby Sundra 8:45
We’re not also passing over the messy part is when it started because as you mentioned at the wedding, the day of the wedding, you know, I was all dressed and I went to the side of the room when my dad was waiting for me and my dad said, you know, there is a side door, you don’t have to do this, you know, you want

Kevin Anthony 9:03
Not a good sign.

Gaby Sundra 9:07
Right, but having just had none and I said Dad I’ve never been more clear. I was just floating on air that day, I thought I’d have nerves. I had no nerves, I was just delighted. And I was 37 when we got married and he was 40. So for our first marriage, so we both had waited. And but the engagement party was really the wake-up call. Yeah, the work we had to do from getting engaged, getting unengaged, getting engaged again.

Gaby Sundra 9:32
That was definitely an on-off ring that came on ring came off. arguments in New York, Greg he had to drive home in the middle of the night back to Boston, his family after Christmas and it was messy. Alright, gay engagement party. We will come out and one of our friends says I need to talk to you and he pulls us aside and we read a gift or something.

Kevin Anthony 9:55
Yeah. The gift of awareness.

Gaby Sundra 10:01
wasn’t good, it was good. We were actually at Burning Man, we’re having our engagement party at Burning Man. And he pulled us into His RV and status down at the table. And he said I don’t think you should do this. He said it looks really messy to me. And that’s why I say from messy to magical because that was the feedback we were getting.

Gaby Sundra 10:19
We felt this deep intuition. But there was so much of our own stuff that we hadn’t healed. And we kept thinking it was about the other person. And as soon as we realized we chose this and trusted our intuition over our minds, things got a lot better. When you remove blame, a good tip from booth blame is a very good first step.

Céline Remy 10:39
So I’m curious, you’ve got all these people around you that are telling you guys shouldn’t be doing this. And I mean, now we’re like 15 years in so we know you have a successful marriage. But what made you still go through it? You talked about having this intuition, but really, you know, I think when our friends and family tell us, you shouldn’t do this, I mean, when we’re teenagers, it’s oftentimes we’ll do it because everybody is against it.

Kevin Anthony 11:03
Because we know better than all those people with all that experience that we don’t have that you

Céline Remy 11:07
guys were already older in your phase of life. So I’m curious, like, what made you go through it anyway,

Kevin Anthony 11:15
despite all of the advice to the opposite?

Gaby Sundra 11:19
I’m so glad you picked up on the intuition part. Did you have something to say?

Raj Sundra 11:22
I’ll say something briefly. You know, Gaby will talk more about the intuitive part. More and more on tapped into that, but at the time, I don’t think I was. But, you know, when we had that split uptime, there’s a lot of looking, you know, it’s good to have a shift to that and get some distance and be able to just kind of look from a different perspective.

Raj Sundra 11:47
I just got clear that the life that I wanted to create was going to be created with Gabby. You know, anything else was gonna sort of pale in comparison. And so I just really needed to take myself on and there’s a story about me going to Australia in a moment. We’ll talk about that, but

Gaby Sundra 12:10
Good, good. Speaking of family members being involved, he got me a little teary there, honey. Oh, intuition is such a critical factor. So often, couples, you know, they don’t come to get support until they really need it until it’s a problem. And then they’re in fixing mode. And they say, should I stay? Or should I go? It’s the most common question, right?

Gaby Sundra 12:31
And I always go back to you have to trust your gut, your intuition, your body, before your mind. My gut. When I was with Raj, it felt like getting into a warm bath. Like I just relaxed and my whole body just uncurled. And I could be myself, my sweaty self, my silly self, my gross self, my ambitious self, my lazy self, I could be all of it with him. But then my mind would say and these are the words that would come to my mind. Got to be fucking kidding me.

Gaby Sundra 13:03
The choice I’m making the emotional, messy drama that we’re having weekly the fist through walls, the like, I mean, it was messy. And we really took it on of like, I mean, we weren’t violent with each other. But there were some objects thrown in some opposing walls made in the early days. Oh, I’ve seen a little look of recognition. There may be

Céline Remy 13:24
no, we’ve never done this.

Kevin Anthony 13:26
A little bit more of an Oh, wow, I got that bad.

Gaby Sundra 13:31
A particular stairwell that I think got patched up three times.

Gaby Sundra 13:38
But those were the Wake Up Calls of like, wow, okay, that’s not how we want to handle it. And we could have just said, pull the ejector seat. But instead, we really leaned in. And that was, what, 12 years ago, the last time something like that happened. We did have we gave up swearing at each other and name-calling three years into the relationship.

Gaby Sundra 13:56
We said, let’s just take that off the table as a practice. It made a big difference, but about when COVID hit about two months into COVID. We got really stressed and tense. And he and I got into an argument and I just yelled Fuck you. And he turned around and said,

Gaby Sundra 14:23
Let’s now go 20 years before we do that again.

Kevin Anthony 14:27
Okay, okay. So I’m glad we took some time to cover all of that because I think the listeners now can get a feel for just how messy this was. We’re not talking about oh, you know, there were a few things that weren’t working.

Kevin Anthony 14:41
We had a fight here or there and look, now everything’s great because you know, a lot of people, they don’t relate to that, right? They just go well, okay. It really wasn’t that bad. So you know, it probably wasn’t that hard to fix it. Now we’ve established it was bad. It required a lot of work.

Gaby Sundra 14:57
People see a relationship like yours or anything. Oh, thank you. Just happiness should be easier that just happens. And I want people to know, not to, you know, as they say, you know, beat a dead horse. That’s a bad phrase to use, but, but to actually really look at yourself, and is there something that needs to grow? Whether it’s that relationship with the next one?

Kevin Anthony 15:17
Okay, so then the next obvious question is, what is the first thing that you did to fix all of this? Right? So we’ve got this mess, you decide to go ahead with it anyway. But you obviously had to do something to get to where you are now. So what’s the first thing that you guys did that really had an impact?

Raj Sundra 15:37
Or saying things? I think some of Imago therapy was one of the biggest speakers. A while we had both done a lot of transformational work, you know, probably 10 years of it, maybe I Gaby was a little bit ahead of the curve. We didn’t quite grok the concept that our partners trigger our unhealed wounds from the past. And there’s a lot of blaming going on when your wounds get triggered.

Raj Sundra 16:07
It’s like, why are you doing that to me, you know, if that’s likely language in the background like this isn’t the right person if that stuff is coming up. But, you know, through a Mago, we really got to learn kind of this formulation, that, that we choose people in romantic relationships that trigger our unhealed wounds, but don’t have any capacity to heal them. And so, we just started like owning our shit.

Gaby Sundra 16:36
That’s the technical term. Imago therapy, or own your shit? Take your choice.

Raj Sundra 16:44
You know, Gabby asked me when we renewed our vows. I think we both shared, you know, at year 10 what was one of the key things that we’ve learned? And mine was when I’m absolutely sure that I’m right. I know that I’m not. Okay, you know, a shift of frame of, like, wow, I’m bringing that into the equation here. And of course, you know, they’re doing something to trigger it.

Raj Sundra 17:11
But until I get my side of the street cleaned up, there’s nothing really I can do over there. relationally because it’s just blaming, and not taking on yourself. So that was one for me. One big thing.

Gaby Sundra 17:25
That was huge. Yeah, the elimination of blame. I would say the other end mentioned before trusting your gut over your mind. Then it’s very powerful to choose, we could we chose and we created a container. When we got married, we meant it. And we created 12 wedding vows one to focus on each month to keep those wedding vows alive.

Gaby Sundra 17:45
You know, we talked about bringing the play to accountability. You said in our intro, and it’s all about getting clear on what do we want not like wait till we don’t have what we want and waste our energy on complaining and blaming and creating separation, and have practices to say what is it that you want? What is it that I want? What do we want? And every day? How can we remind ourselves of that and get closer and true up to it? So those I think are the big choices is trusting your gut, and choosing

Céline Remy 18:15
another two bringing up like that you chose and you wrote your vows. And it wasn’t just like, oh, a lot of people think it has to be spontaneous. And you know, whether it’s to have sex or relationship and if you go into planning, then it’s going to take the magic out of it.

Céline Remy 18:30
But what you are really saying is that by taking the time to dream things up and be like this is how we want to feel this is the kind of energy we want to cultivate in our relationship and writing it down. You committed to it you chose to show up every day to this level of energy and commitment.

Céline Remy 18:50
And that’s what’s started I believe the transformation probably into making you that person you knew you were you could be that you weren’t quite just yet at that moment. So

Gaby Sundra 19:02
you said a great way to cultivate, right? We cultivate a couple of cultures, I like alliterations, too. We like being playful. And but I love that word because that’s what we’re doing is really just, you know, they come from a culture and a company matters, you know, in culture and your relationship matters.

Gaby Sundra 19:16
And you’re going to have one way or the other. For me, I often say my willy nilly is like a lazy, selfish, bitchy person left to my own devices. I would that is where I will go so it’s my intention to practice being compassionate consider it patient calm. That doesn’t usually happen on its own.

Kevin Anthony 19:37
Yeah. Oh, go ahead. rash.

Raj Sundra 19:39
Yeah, yeah, I don’t know. Maybe I have it wrong. But again, if I think I’m right, maybe I’m not but somehow in our culture, if it was like decided that if it, you know, is nice and romantic and easy, then that’s the right relationship and if it’s not that then Around person. But anything, I haven’t seen one thing in life that just like the magic is like that you get introduced to it or the idea comes up.

Raj Sundra 20:10
But to cultivate anything again, going back to that language, it takes something. I don’t know of anything in life that just happens that we assume it’s like nature does it all the time, but we assume it’s we don’t make things awesome, just by circumstance, we actually have to get clear on what we want to transform ourselves to actually move into that.

Raj Sundra 20:32
And I just, there’s just this cultural norm that God established that it’s like the movies, you meet the person and it’s perfect.

Gaby Sundra 20:39
It shouldn’t be this hard. It shouldn’t be this hard.

Kevin Anthony 20:42
It’s all those fairy tale cartoons, right? I won’t say which company is responsible for that. But all these fairytale cartoons about how two people meet, and all of a sudden, it’s amazing. And everything just works out happily ever after forever. Right? Like, yeah, so you bring up a good point that that is unrealistic. And that just because you don’t experience that right from the beginning, or at least most people don’t, some do.

Kevin Anthony 21:07
But if you don’t, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s all wrong. And none of it’s gonna work. As long as you take the time to one, do the personal work yourself, and invest in the relationship that you can still have a thriving relationship. I just want to reiterate one more time, both of you have said the same thing, which is that you really had to do your own personal work.

Kevin Anthony 21:33
And I really wanted to bring that up for the listeners too. Because I think a lot of people, sometimes they get this idea in their head that well, she needs to fix that thing, or Well, yeah, he better figure that out. Right? You know, and it’s the

Gaby Sundra 21:46
Or ultimatum x, y, z,

Kevin Anthony 21:48
right. And it’s the idea that, you know, I forget the exact phrase you use, but of something about, you know, cleaning your own house first or something like that, you know, like, you got to work on your end of it all the time, it doesn’t mean that they don’t have the stuff to work on. But you definitely got to work on your own side of things and rise. The last thing that I want to say is, you mentioned something, actually, you said it twice about when you really think that you know that you’re right.

Kevin Anthony 22:15
That’s probably when you’re not, and, and, you know, so that might sound to some people like, well, he doesn’t really trust his intuition or whatever. But what I hear with that, really, is that anybody that has an open mind should always be questioning even their own beliefs. Right. So and this, this goes for anything in politics, right? Like we have this crazy politics stuff going on right now.

Kevin Anthony 22:37
Never say I’m right. I know what’s happening, right. But instead, you should be going. I’m pretty sure I think I know what the truth is. But I should be open to the fact that I could be wrong. And I should look at both sides of it, to confirm that I actually am right.

Kevin Anthony 22:53
And that’s kind of what I hear when you say that when you are 100% sure that you’re not even going to look at anything else. That’s probably your bias getting in the way there. Right. So

Raj Sundra 23:05
go ahead. Yeah, and I totally hear you. Okay.

Gaby Sundra 23:09
No, I just had something that I got it. Thanks for watching it.

Raj Sundra 23:22
I’ve been fortunate enough to in somewhat oddly work with her dad as one of my primary coaches. He was Osho as an attorney and has done 40 plus years of every kind of personal work modality. And just one of the things that I’ve really, you know, His focus is around consciousness and, you know, being able to watch, watch your identity. And like, the identity is always trying to be right, like, you know, because it’s just, it, it calms the ego down, you know, it’s subtle, it reduces fears and things of that nature.

Raj Sundra 23:57
So I, and I am a nine, like on the enneagram scale, and I kind of take everyone’s perspective into account. And I’ve learned that I both need to use this tool that we talked about inquiry, curious judgment. It’s like one of the most valuable tools because often when we’re right, we’re judging. And it’s not like a clean, right? It’s like a judgment, and then we attach to that judgment. So I’m always looking for, how can I enquire and just expand my awareness so that what I’m doing is more educated than just driven by my lens of identity in my past,

Gaby Sundra 24:35
and that’s the relationship mantra we created is an inquiry, curious judgment. So we find ourselves in the grips of judgment and being right. We just say that over and over again to ourselves until we can start asking questions. So tell me why you have that experience.

Raj Sundra 24:48
Yeah. And there’s a lot to be experienced or uncovered when you look at when you’re sure that you’re right. There’s a lot more there’s a big thank you very much. on that a bit more, it’s an interesting thing, you know, for men anyway to work on for sure.

Céline Remy 25:06
So I want to dive into a few more things around mistakes and what people should stop doing and then what they can do. But before that, we want to do a short break for our listeners to invite them to our program. So if you are a committed couple who is stuck in a rut, and just going through the daily motion instead of connecting the way you used to, and you’re tired of steel, mechanical sex, that lack spontaneity, and fun, and you don’t want to live a life of average, then Kevin and I would like to invite you to our highly sexed power couple Platinum program.

Céline Remy 25:38
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Céline Remy 25:53
So Gaby, and Raj, what would you say? Are the mistakes to absolutely avoid for our listeners who want to turn their relationship around? If they are recognizing themselves? Right now and think, I’ve been down this road, this is kind of our relationship. Why would they say that they should avoid or stop right away?

Gaby Sundra 26:16
Well, first, we can start with that stopping the blame, right. So if you just go we call it a drama-free diet where you stop blaming, shaming, and complaining, and you’re not worried about them, you’re focusing on yourself. And if you find yourself blaming, shaming, and complaining, then you want to use john Gottman with his magic ratio.

Gaby Sundra 26:34
And if you’ve said one negative thing and a complaint, then back up and say five positive things about the very thing you just said something negative about. And research has shown that if you get to three, you’re back to neutral where you were before you said the negative thing. But if you say two more, you actually have more intimacy and connection than before you said that nasty thing.

Gaby Sundra 26:55
So if I hear myself letting you know, I’m hungry and cranky, and I say something nasty. I try and like to do a reverse route. You over you know, go reverse. So that’s one is reducing or limiting or eliminating, if you can, the blaming shaming and complaining?

Raj Sundra 27:13
Yeah. Could you ask the question again, I just want to make sure to do or not

Céline Remy 27:17
do other mistakes to absolutely avoid, you know, that they shouldn’t be doing at this moment, see if they want to turn the relationship around. And it could be things you guys have done.

Kevin Anthony 27:29
made any big mistakes.

Raj Sundra 27:34
A really good tool is not taking the bait. And with that not coming from the trigger. Normally, you know, an argument starts when someone says something and it triggers the other person and we get hooked.

Gaby Sundra 27:51
Don’t talk to me like that. And then their negativity justifies your negativity. And it’s off to the races like

Raj Sundra 27:56
spirals up or down depending on which way you look at it. But you know, anytime that you get triggered, okay, while you’re getting triggered, there’s this thing that maybe we learned in the language around it anyway, Landmark is being unfuckable with and probably not since they don’t swear, but

Kevin Anthony 28:19
let me know unfuckable didn’t come from landmark? Shocked.

Raj Sundra 28:26
But you know that this is the origin of most friction points is that there’s a trigger, and then we gauge around the trigger from egoic identified unaware of place that’s wounded and in survival strategy or did and that goes absolutely nowhere.

Raj Sundra 28:43
And it just keeps building up this plaque, this relationship friction that, you know, Gaby does these great sessions of venting for victory. And what she does give people the space to clean all that plaque out.

Raj Sundra 28:58
That can be related. I just ran a coaching call with one of my clients and they were upset with each other. And I’m like, hold on here. We’re totally coming from the figure, we need to clean this up. Like, get clear on what’s yours to own. And then build what you want. Don’t like to build from the trigger and upset and blame, shame, and all that.

Gaby Sundra 29:21
So we have another little mantra, I like little memorable mantras because when you’re upset you can’t save and I can’t think theories are this bad. And so one is creating a connection before resolving conflict. Yes. So often we’re trying to resolve conflict from in conflict. Raj and I have learned that that isn’t very helpful. If we’re blaming each other and we’re not feeling connected, we’re not at our most compassionate or creative, and we’re certainly not being allies in it together.

Gaby Sundra 29:49
And so we’ve learned to unhook from that we call it so so moment this is dyno doesn’t feel good, but it could so easily get so much worse. And I’m of the like if you get hurt yourself. It, and he’s more than like, Oh my god, I can’t even handle how intense you are right now. And so we’ve learned through the experience of what not to do, of like, you know, you’ve talked to me about this, or him running away and triggering my abandonment issues.

Gaby Sundra 30:16
So now we learn to say, okay, we’re going to come back to this, let’s go resource ourselves, let’s go get some coaching. Let’s go right about it, do whatever we need to do, go take a shower, whatever we need to do to get ourselves right, and come back as partners. We have a quick phrase, the first tool we ever created called stop, shift start. So if one were arguing, and one of us realizes Wait, this isn’t who we say we are, we say I call stuff just start.

Raj Sundra 30:43
Kind of like a Referee,

Gaby Sundra 30:45
like your tenants throw a flag. Now I can’t stop just started. Yeah, I’ve got one baby toe in who we say we are. We’re not being that we please take my hand and meet me there. And then when the early days, we weren’t as good as there were a couple of times that I said eff.

Gaby Sundra 30:59
This before we were still swearing f stop should start that we don’t do that anymore. Now someone called stop to start, we stopped to start. It’s a habit like anything else swinging a baseball bat takes practice.

Kevin Anthony 31:09
Yeah. So one of the things that you just mentioned in all of that was that at some point, you sought some third party help. So this is a question that comes up with a lot of couples, which is like, you know, should we try to solve this on our own? Or should we get help?

Kevin Anthony 31:24
What is the right point in time to actually seek out that help? Like, should we wait until it’s a complete disaster? Or should we do it beforehand? So what are your guys take on that? I mean, obviously, you do coaching much as we do. What is your take on like, when is it the right time for somebody to seek third party help?

Gaby Sundra 31:43
And well, I see early and often Yeah, I believe, you know, it takes a village, you want to be careful about who you’re seeking counsel from? Are you seeking counsel from someone who’s just gonna agree with you? Like the first time, I spent the night at his house, and I went to the bathroom? And he kissed me at the fireplace, and I went into the bathroom and called my most promiscuous girlfriend.

Gaby Sundra 32:04
And I said, What should I do? I know exactly what she was going to tell me to do. So we actually have another couple of friends and we have a weekly call with them for 12 weeks on and then four weeks off three times a year, where we connect with another couple ongoingly as a practice to check-in.

Gaby Sundra 32:23
We don’t like to wait until there’s a problem. There’s a wonderful couple’s community called Eden rising. And just a group you know, they’re meeting monthly they’re meeting and live events that I think choose wisely. Choose happy couples, and do it in relationships. So it could be you have a group, you know, we also have another group where it’s three couples we made with every two weeks, us and two others.

Gaby Sundra 32:46
So we just have these opportunities to be in healthy conversation on going around what’s working and what’s not working, and how we can all help each other and, and be compassionate. That is okay when it’s not okay. Mm-hmm.

Céline Remy 32:58
We had run on CRL on our show a while back, but it’s I can’t remember we’ll put the show into the show note which episode it was if you are interested in hearing more about what they offer with Eden and some more games and things that they offer for their relationship.

Céline Remy 33:17
But I’m curious now I want to bring it to the present is he are all of these years later, like what 15 or so years, and you have a thriving relationship? What do your friends and family have to say now?

Gaby Sundra 33:33
Not only friends and family we actually get stopped on the street. We had someone stop us, not this year, but stop us and just start writing a song about us on the street. So we went well often say that we went from that couple like oh even invite back couple You don’t? Like they could just bicker at the dinner table. And like, you know, the whole party could just be awkward. Right? to more of it a couple of what is it about you?

Gaby Sundra 33:59
We hear that all the time? What is it about you too? So there’s definitely that that shift. So they’ve noticed, and that’s why we do relationship work because they came to us and said you need to do this look, you need to tell people what you’ve done. And then we did it.

Gaby Sundra 34:16
We spoke at a friend’s wedding at a seminar and five different couples spoke and everyone was laughing hysterically when we spoke and we weren’t trying to be funny. We’re just sharing authentically. And from that day forward, people said you need to bring this out there. So that’s what our friends and family are saying.

Raj Sundra 34:34
a story we’re looking for a home right now to buy. And it’s funny because we found the House Hunters music played in the car.

Gaby Sundra 34:46
Different things.

Raj Sundra 34:47
We think we want the same thing but we see a possibility in one property or not. And we found one place that Gaby thought had a lot of potentials. I thought it needed Its work. And it was a little bit of friction there. And, you know? Well, when the thing that I’m getting to is that, I said that I go look at the property again because I couldn’t clearly articulate what it was that I didn’t like about it.

Raj Sundra 35:15
And Gaby’s Mom, you know, we’re staying with parents right now, in COVID. She said, You’re so sweet with Gabby, you know that you’ll go up there again, and look at the property. For me, it was just like, well, it’s the right thing to do.

Raj Sundra 35:33
But just that her mom sees that in, in our relationship is awesome, because she can see what’s possible, you know, in relationships, and it’s certainly a shift from probably how she saw us a decade. Like, I’m not fucking going to bounce you around, right?

Céline Remy 35:54
So if you could give our listeners only one piece of advice to get their relationship working, what would it be one piece of advice, you can each go?

Gaby Sundra 36:08
Well, since I’ve said, some of my favorites, I’m going to throw in one new one, it’s called a big toe, both are better than one. It goes back to that imago idea that there’s some genius in how you choose your partner you don’t understand. And so if you’ve chosen this person, and your gut says, yes, then accept that that’s a genius choice. Your partner is a genius in your life, and you’re a genius in their life.

Gaby Sundra 36:31
So when you have opposing perspectives, right? When you have opposing perspectives, or seemingly, paradoxically, they seemingly opposites, to actually consider that there’s a synergy, not a compromise available. And we use that as an anchor, that even when we think it’s not true, every time we have an impasse, we say, let’s bring big toe to this. Where’s the synergy? Not the compromise? And again, that’s about dropping being right.

Raj Sundra 36:59
Yeah, I would say that your differences are gold. You know, we get very stuck in what we think is right, and how we like to do things. And it’s the expansion that you can have as a human being by being in a committed relationship and really looking for the mutual happiness that it’s like being in a personal growth workshop, like your entire life, I mean, not in a negative way.

Kevin Anthony 37:27
For some people that could sound like torture.

Raj Sundra 37:32
learning lessons. So

Gaby Sundra 37:34
if you’re paying attention

Raj Sundra 37:36
Yeah, yeah, just the whole thing of the trigger. Look inside, what is there to heal, and get to the point where that’s not like, as long as it’s like a healthy trigger. And like someone’s not like abusing you or cheating on you. You know, things that, yeah, I could

Gaby Sundra 37:53
just say it in two words, be intentional. be intentional, forget the willy nilly just have a practice of being intentional, and it won’t be so hard. If you’re both doing your work. And being intentional. You build trust, you build muscle, in the personal growth in it, and it will get better and better and better.

Céline Remy 38:09
So now we come to our very last question. Can I ask it, Kevin,

Kevin Anthony 38:13
you love to ask this question. So yes, please go right ahead.

Céline Remy 38:16
Gary, M. Raj. Tell us what is your best sexual talent?

Gaby Sundra 38:22
Oh, good question. So the love lab about our own or about our beloved’s?

Céline Remy 38:27
You can pick. Some couples say about each other, some couples about themselves. So let us know before you say it, so everybody knows.

Gaby Sundra 38:34
Okay, I’m gonna say one about him. And that is that he generates we call it best ever sexy time, a triple-double, where it’s a 10 for intimacy, a 10 for sexiness, and a 10. For technique.

Gaby Sundra 38:53
Right, like in basketball, the triple-double, right.

Gaby Sundra 38:57
And Raj has a commitment. I know this isn’t a specific technique. But his technique is to commit that every 90 days that we have the best ever sexy time. And just not that you can control that, but that we play again, the intention that we play the game for that. So we know like we need privacy.

Gaby Sundra 39:15
We need a long period of time. So a few weeks ago, we went and rented a farmhouse for three days and did a little retreat, just the two of us and had I mean, we’ve been together 15 years and I’m 49 years old, and I had the best orgasm of my life. like six hours of me on and off, it was all intimacy, but on and off intercourse twice into the bathtub and out of the bathtub.

Gaby Sundra 39:40
So I think that is your best trait. Creation of that game. Thank you. Yeah,

Raj Sundra 39:50
yeah, I would say, commitment also is Gaby’s best

Gaby Sundra 39:58
bet you’re gonna say something totally different. Well,

Raj Sundra 40:00
maybe I will.

Kevin Anthony 40:05
See, I think, I think you can say anything you want on this show. It’s explicit.

Gaby Sundra 40:12
I love that about your show. You guys do explicit better than anybody. Yes.

Raj Sundra 40:17
It can become, it can become easy to start letting your sex life fade. For whatever reason, you’re too busy, you’re upset with your partner, and you’re not attracted at that moment, whatever, the timing doesn’t work out. But, you know, Gaby is relentless, that this part of our relationship is awesome.

Raj Sundra 40:40
And she gets all these card decks. You know, this is sex Jenga thing that you know, she’s always finding and creating and playing with making our sex life. Awesome. So I’d say I guess.

Gaby Sundra 40:59
We play with toys and props.

Raj Sundra 41:01
And I don’t know if I feel comfortable saying this.

Raj Sundra 41:07
she gives awesome blowjobs.

Kevin Anthony 41:14
So does Céline and frequently.

Raj Sundra 41:19
Look at his eyes. It’s like it said

Céline Remy 41:24
I could see it too. Gaby and Raj. This has been awesome. Can you tell our listeners where they can find more of you and more about you?

Gaby Sundra 41:34
Absolutely. In the past, you may have noticed this relationship but in games, but you can look for us now at for better dot love. And actually, there’s a URL specifically for your audience here forbetter.love/lovelab.

Gaby Sundra 41:48
And we’re just delighted to have a few free goodies for you as well there. So make sure you go and check it out and the link is in the description below.

Kevin Anthony 41:57
All right. Well, that’s all the time we have for this episode. Thanks, Gaby and  Raj, for being on the show. And we will see everybody next week.

Gaby Sundra 42:06
Thanks so much for having us delight as usual.

Kevin Anthony 42:15
We hope you liked this episode of the love lab podcast. If you enjoy this show, subscribe. leave us a review and share it with your friends.

Céline Remy 42:22
And for more free exclusive content. Join us in the passion vault at kevinandceline.com/vault.Thanks for listening. And remember, you’re amazing.